#ukmedlibs Transcript
Healthcare social media transcript of the #ukmedlibs hashtag.
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See #ukmedlibs Influencers/Analytics.
| Profile | Tweet |
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 | UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs Welcome to tonight’s chat on expert searching in health librarianship. You’ll find some background here: https://t.co/zfL0oAXqi4 #ukmedlibs This is @tomroper leading tonight’s chat |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs And for some questions to focus tonight’s discussion, see these: https://t.co/JUsDPSoAoE #ukmedlibs |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs So, to start off, please introduce yourself in a tweet (and DFTUH: don’t forget the #ukmedlibs hashtag). If you don’t use the hashtag other people following won’t see your contribution, and they won’t be archived in the transcript |
 | Louise Levitt @LouiseWann Louise from West Middlesex university hospital. #ukmedlibs |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs We noticed that our #medlibs colleagues introduce themselves by describing what they’re ‘reading’ where ‘reading'=the beverage (not necessarily intoxicating) they’ve got on the go #ukmedlibs Feel free to emulate, if you wish |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs And here we go with #ukmedlibs question 1: What’s so expert about expert searchers? |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs And this Facet title is highly relevant to tonight’s #ukmedlibs chat. Has anyone read it? (To be reviewed in the next @CILIPHLG newsletter) |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs @samanthaclare So that’s one lemsip and one Malbec #ukmedlibs |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs Welcome, everyone, to #ukmedlibs So, you have the background to expert searching as expounded by @MedLibAssn nigh on 20 years ago. But what does it mean now? |
 | Jane Falconer @falkie71@mastodon.scot @falkie71 @UKMedLibs @CILIPHLG I've read the first 2 chapters, trying to find time to read a bit every week. Looks like it'll be really relevant to me as I often search outside clinical medicine topics. #ukmedlibs |
 | Lindsay Snell @LindsaySnell #UKMedLibs Lindsay Snell, clinical librarian in Derby |
| Lindsay Snell @LindsaySnell Q1 #UKMedLibs I think it's extremely rare for us not to be able to find more and better information than our users |
 | Emily Hopkins @emilylovedhim #ukmedlibs I'm Emily, a knowledge manager (the sort that does a fair bit of searching) and I work for Health Education England in Manchester. |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs Throwing #ukmedlibs Q2 at you now: There’s an ever growing range of sources to search, black and white and grey. Can automation help? What do technologies such as text mining, machine learning and artificial intelligence have to offer the expert searcher? |
| Lindsay Snell @LindsaySnell Q1 #UKMedLibs so it's a mixture of technique, knowing the sources, and being able to evaluate information |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs Very well and succinctly put #ukmedlibs |
| @LSHTMlibrary @falkie71 @UKMedLibs @CILIPHLG woops, forgot #ukmedlibs | |
 | TechnoJeder A.I. @TechnoJeder RT @UKMedLibs: Throwing #ukmedlibs Q2 at you now: Throwing #ukmedlibs Q2 at you now: There’s an ever growing range of sources to search, black and white and grey. Can automation help? What do technologies such as text mining, machine learning and artificial intelligence have to offer the expert searcher? |
 | Katie @kjtreherne #ukmedlibs Evening all, Katie here, Outreach Librarian @OHFTLib |
| Lindsay Snell @LindsaySnell #UKMedLibs I'm on a train so struggling to keep up due to poor connection - apologies if I say stuff in the wrong place! |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs @falkie71 @CILIPHLG Do you find there’s an increasing demand for this type of search? Obvs LSHTM users probably atypical, but even so….#ukmedlibs |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs @LindsaySnell There is no ‘right’ place on #ukmedlibs |
| Emily Hopkins @emilylovedhim @UKMedLibs #ukmedlibs Oh definitely, can certainly see it becoming part of the searcher's toolbox. It could maybe help with structuring strategies and refining for multiple databases, freeing up searcher's time for more of the synthesis and presentation of results. |
| Jane Falconer @falkie71@mastodon.scot @falkie71 @LindsaySnell #ukmedlibs I would add to that, the ability to turn a topic into a searchable question and then create a search which most effectively and efficiently answers that. |
| Katie @kjtreherne Q1 - search expert but not a subject matter expert, I'm sure the clinicians know far more than I ever will about their topic! Just not how to search for it... #ukmedlibs |
| Louise Levitt @LouiseWann Q1. Searching is like driving a car. You don’t really become fully competent until you’ve been out on the road for a good while. #ukmedlibs |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs Anecdotally, this seems to be something people struggle with. But we can’t do every search to systematic review standard #ukmedlibs |
| Lindsay Snell @LindsaySnell @JuicyPearSeed #UKMedLibs something I struggle with! |
| Emily Hopkins @emilylovedhim @UKMedLibs #ukmedlibs I can probably see automation/ machine learning being used even sooner in horizon scanning activity though, trawling content & learning what is/isn't relevant from disparate sources. |
| Jane Falconer @falkie71@mastodon.scot @falkie71 @UKMedLibs #ukmedlibs Something that can translate my search from one interface to another accurately would suit me. Plus something which can deduplicate my results accurately. Not there yet, but I can see it coming. |
| Katie @kjtreherne @samanthaclare @sarahlrudd Definitely, but I moved from law libraries into the NHS and I remember being really happy that a fortnight in I could search the databases better than the Dr asking me for a systematic review search 😀 #ukmedlibs |
| Emily Hopkins @emilylovedhim @UKMedLibs Of course I remembered the #ukmedlibs hashtag but forgot to include the question number. That was Q2 of course. *Facepalm* |
| Jane Falconer @falkie71@mastodon.scot @falkie71 @UKMedLibs #ukmedlibs and you need to know when to stop in a systematic review search too! |
| Lindsay Snell @LindsaySnell Q2 #UKMedLibs about a year ago I asked Siri a qn I'd had at work. It came up with many of the articles I did. |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs @emilylovedhim It all comes out in the wash (transcript) #ukmedlibs |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs #ukmedlibs Q3: Clearly not every clinician in Britain uses the services of an expert searcher for every question that arises. Does this matter? Who uses the service of expert searchers and when? |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs @JuicyPearSeed Ah, one day the contribution of that great logician Donald Rumsfeld to retrieval theory will be properly recognised #ukmedlibs |
 | Holly Case Wyatt @Hollingtonn A ( v v late) hi all! Holly from HEE here #ukmedlibs |
| Lindsay Snell @LindsaySnell @sarahlrudd @UKMedLibs Definitely, that's so important #UKMedLibs |
| Jane Falconer @falkie71@mastodon.scot @falkie71 @UKMedLibs @CILIPHLG All the time. public health topics are generally huge and really hard to define, so we end up with thousands of results. Right now i'm searching for mitigation strategies which cities might use to improve environmental issues. #ukmedlibs |
| Holly Case Wyatt @Hollingtonn Q3. This does worry me, particularly around service provision decisions #ukmedlibs |
| Louise Levitt @LouiseWann @UKMedLibs Q3. I often do searches for readers who have tried themselves, but not found what they expected or when they realise that the search is more complex #ukmedlibs |
| Lindsay Snell @LindsaySnell @samanthaclare It was a very definite question, maybe it would have struggled more with a fuzzier topic? Also it pushes the relevant stuff to the top but doesn't give an overview of the literature. #UKMedLibs |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs @madge3232 Interesting. Is the argument that endusers can do it themselves? #ukmedlibs |
| Lindsay Snell @LindsaySnell @falkie71 @UKMedLibs @CILIPHLG #UKMedLibs wow, sounds like a complex search! |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs #ukmedlibs Q4 Much of the literature on searching is on searching to support systematic reviews. Yet what proportion of searches require an exhaustive strategy? How will the growing interest in types of evidence review with abbreviated search strategies affect us? |
| Katie @kjtreherne Q3 This might depend a bit on the definition of an 'expert' search. I sometimes think we (I!) can go a bit overboard with full all-singing all-dancing search on every database known... and miss the very simple, specific, answer that was wanted :( #ukmedlibs |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs Very true, which lead us on to a later question, on the training of the expert searcher and the place of subject knowledge in that, as well as technical database expertise #ukmedlibs |
| Lindsay Snell @LindsaySnell Q3 #UKMedLibs I think the concept of unmet need is really useful here - people are working without the latest evidence all the time, with the related waste and inefficiency. However they don't know what they're missing (unknown unknowns?) |
| Jane Falconer @falkie71@mastodon.scot @falkie71 @UKMedLibs This is something the @levay_paul book looks at. Not every review is a systematic review, and even then they may not need an exhaustive search. The trick is to be transparent and unbiased IMO. #ukmedlibs |
| Jane Falconer @falkie71@mastodon.scot @falkie71 @LindsaySnell @UKMedLibs @CILIPHLG It's been interesting but a nightmare! #ukmedlibs |
| Lindsay Snell @LindsaySnell @madge3232 @UKMedLibs #UKMedLibs crazy - it takes us several hours per search, when will a clinician find time for it? |
| Katie @kjtreherne @LisaSparkle @sarahlrudd @samanthaclare It definitely took time... and there I still things I feel I understand about the legal sector, where I started at the bottom and worked up, that don't feel instinctive in the NHS #ukmedlibs |
| Holly Case Wyatt @Hollingtonn @falkie71 @UKMedLibs @CILIPHLG Yes I found the same with Public Health; huge, complex topics. Often seemed likethey didn’t know what they were looking for! #ukmedlibs |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs Speaking of the known knowns etc, remember T.Scott Plutchak On the satisfied and inept end user Med Ref Serv Q. 1989 Spring; 8(1):45–8 #ukmedlibs |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs #ukmedlibs Q5: Are there enough opportunities for training for the expert searchers of the future? |
| Jane Falconer @falkie71@mastodon.scot @falkie71 @Hollingtonn @UKMedLibs @CILIPHLG #ukmedlibs I'm not so sure it's that (although, deffo sometimes) but that when you're looking for info on a population, rather than an individual, things are automatically harder to define. |
| Lindsay Snell @LindsaySnell #UKMedLibs train coming into the station, goodnight everybody! Thank you @UKMedLibs |
| Holly Case Wyatt @Hollingtonn @falkie71 @UKMedLibs @CILIPHLG True! I also found that sometimes they were looking for evidence to support a decision that had already sort of been made, which I found tricky to navigate #ukmedlibs |
| Jane Falconer @falkie71@mastodon.scot @falkie71 @samanthaclare @JuicyPearSeed @UKMedLibs @benjohnskinner #ukmedlibs I put my searches in our institutional repository. There for anyone to download (except it seems to be down right now) |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs RT @falkie71: @samanthaclare @JuicyPearSeed @UKMedLibs @benjohnskinner #ukmedlibs I put my searches in our institutional repository. There for anyone to download (except it seems to be down right now) |
| Jane Falconer @falkie71@mastodon.scot @falkie71 @Hollingtonn @UKMedLibs @CILIPHLG Luckily I don't tend to get this, working in HE, and in an institution which prides itself in the excellence of its research. #ukmedlibs |
| Jane Falconer @falkie71@mastodon.scot @falkie71 @UKMedLibs #ukmedlibs Can I do some shameless self-promotion, and plug the course I'm running for @cpd25_M25 https://t.co/gHR8MkkFhL |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs #ukmedlibs Q6 What tools and resources do you use for sharing and collaborating with fellow expert searchers? |
| Jane Falconer @falkie71@mastodon.scot @falkie71 @vinyl_librarian @UKMedLibs @wichor #ukmedlibs He has. We've been twitter chatting about it, and I'll hopefully get to chat to him in person at @eahil2019 |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs @falkie71 @cpd25_M25 But of course you can….the more opportunities the better, we think #ukmedlibs |
| Katie @kjtreherne @weededlibrarian @samanthaclare @JuicyPearSeed @UKMedLibs @benjohnskinner We just copy and paste the search strategy into the search strategy box in KS before generating the report... do you not have this? It means we can look back and see search strategies from previous/colleagues' searches quite easily. #ukmedlibs |
| Jane Falconer @falkie71@mastodon.scot @falkie71 @levay_paul @JuicyPearSeed @UKMedLibs 100% this. #ukmedlibs |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs @weededlibrarian @JuicyPearSeed @samanthaclare @ejramstead See previous tweet chat when we compared the MLA competencies and our own dear @CILIPinfo’s PKSB for health https://t.co/4dNwXUuvp2 #ukmedlibs |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs RT @levay_paul: |
| Jane Falconer @falkie71@mastodon.scot @falkie71 @levay_paul @UKMedLibs #ukmedlibs OMG, one more for OneNote - I couldn't do searching without it! It holds all my thoughts, bits of search from a variety of places, and my final search strategies with notes to write up. Plus I send my emails to it, share with colleagues... Amazing tool |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs And finishing up with this: Q7 What’s your top expert searching tip? #ukmedlibs |
| Jane Falconer @falkie71@mastodon.scot @falkie71 @samanthaclare @JuicyPearSeed @UKMedLibs @benjohnskinner #ukmedlibs My searches are all for systematic reviews and i've yet to find someone who objects: it gives the searches a DOI which makes it easier for publishing. I like it cos the searches have my name on |
| Katie @kjtreherne @samanthaclare @falkie71 @JuicyPearSeed @UKMedLibs @benjohnskinner 2/2 but librarians from other NHS orgs on KS would only see searches from the latter 2 groups. A specific request for a confidential search might not get recorded on KS, or recorded without full details, but that almost never happens (can't remember any I've done). #ukmedlibs |
 | Wichor Bramer, PhD @wichor @levay_paul @JuicyPearSeed @UKMedLibs I always start with a new search #ukmedlibs only if a customer returns and says: i want what you did before but this an that changed |
| Jane Falconer @falkie71@mastodon.scot @falkie71 @UKMedLibs #ukmedlibs Mine would be to not be afraid to question academics/clinicians - ask 'stupid' questions about the topic, clarify their question and ask them to change it if necessary, and don't be afraid to say no if they don't take your advice on board. |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs And so, as the Cillit Bang of time dissolves the stubborn gravy stain of destiny, and the Glade plug in of eternity perfumes the living room of existence…#ukmedlibs it’s 9 pm and the end of the chat |
| Wichor Bramer, PhD @wichor @vinyl_librarian @falkie71 @UKMedLibs Yes i have both chapters in my upcoming phd thesis #ukmedlibs |
| Katie @kjtreherne @Lifuinthelib If someone wants an answer, they'd rather have the right answer than a really good search for the wrong question! #ukmedlibs |
| Wichor Bramer, PhD @wichor @falkie71 @vinyl_librarian @UKMedLibs @eahil2019 I will be at #eahil2019 #ukmedlibs. I ll do a workshop on endnote, and a cec on searching |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs And thanks to everyone for participating #ukmedlibs. The transcript will be up tomorrow, and we’ll have our next chat on 19th March, same time |
| Jane Falconer @falkie71@mastodon.scot @falkie71 @Lifuinthelib #ukmedlibs https://t.co/jTtetYBN0R, also part of MS Office 365 |
| Wichor Bramer, PhD @wichor @UKMedLibs Try to grow your clientele by monitoring reviews published by your organization that hadn’t used your services yet, and send the corresponding author an email to inform the,. #ukmedlibs when i started at erasmus mc 10 years ago looking back we did 5%. Last year we assisted 80%! |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs RT @wichor: @falkie71 @vinyl_librarian @UKMedLibs @eahil2019 I will be at #eahil2019 #ukmedlibs. I ll do a workshop on endnote, and a cec on searching |
| Katie @kjtreherne @wichor @UKMedLibs Wow! And what a fab idea, definitely borrowing this. #ukmedlibs |
| Wichor Bramer, PhD @wichor Hey #ukmedlibs men can’t multitask. Talking with the misses and chatting results in using the wrong (hobby discussion) account. It was me all along. Copied the tweets to my account ;-) |
| Wichor Bramer, PhD @wichor @madge3232 @UKMedLibs People can cook an egg themselves, that does not make it a good idea if everybody cooked their own egg in the cafeteria! #ukmedlibs crazy! |
| Jane Falconer @falkie71@mastodon.scot @falkie71 #ukmedlibs Bye everyone, thanks for the chat. Time to have another beer and see if @LFC can get a goal or three. |
| Katie @kjtreherne Thank you, and goodnight #ukmedlibs |
| UKMedLibs @UKMedLibs Good night, #ukmedlibs pals |
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